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	<title>Comments for It's Elemental</title>
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	<link>http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog</link>
	<description>inspirations, explorations, creative expressions</description>
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		<title>Comment on Alchemical Transformation: Principles, Goals, and Methods MIND MAP by Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/771/alchemical-transformation-principles-goals-and-methods-mind-map/comment-page-1#comment-607</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Mar 2010 17:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Love the mind map - brilliant! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love the mind map &#8211; brilliant!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Musings on the rise of the intellect in ancient Greece by EmmanuEl</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/687/musings-on-the-rise-of-the-intellect-in-ancient-greece/comment-page-1#comment-604</link>
		<dc:creator>EmmanuEl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 09:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/?p=687#comment-604</guid>
		<description>what is your opinion about the the &quot;Orfika&quot; and the discriptions given by.....himself in his books....and please don&#039;t tell me that these books don&#039;t exist.....if you have any idea...contact me at shark.tiger@live.com </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what is your opinion about the the &quot;Orfika&quot; and the discriptions given by&#8230;..himself in his books&#8230;.and please don&#039;t tell me that these books don&#039;t exist&#8230;..if you have any idea&#8230;contact me at <a href="mailto:shark.tiger@live.com">shark.tiger@live.com</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Once upon an alchemical time&#8230; by Bonnie</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/768/once-upon-an-alchemical-time/comment-page-1#comment-602</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 03:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/?p=768#comment-602</guid>
		<description>A mystery to ponder.... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A mystery to ponder&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Once upon an alchemical time&#8230; by Stephanie</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/768/once-upon-an-alchemical-time/comment-page-1#comment-598</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 18:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I love it, it&#039;s like a verbal representation of. an ouroboros.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love it, it&#39;s like a verbal representation of. an ouroboros.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ahriman and the Internet: Is there a third path? by Br. Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/732/ahriman-and-the-internet-a-third-path/comment-page-1#comment-589</link>
		<dc:creator>Br. Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 21:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/?p=732#comment-589</guid>
		<description>Hi Seth, 
The internet is redeemed when it is used as an instrument for doing Christ&#039;s work. It is the &quot;loaves and fishes&quot; on a grand scale.  
One could make the same arguments against the printed word. &quot;Primitive&quot; peoples were said to describe the printed words as &quot;little devils&quot;. Our Lord avoided all that by &quot;writing in the sand&quot;. And so the printed word has furthered the Lord&#039;s work. 
And is a recorded voice more lively than the printed word? I would say so - it&#039;s more &quot;analog&quot;. And so what about a video of the person speaking- again more filled with humanness. 
The charitable provision of Rudolf Steiner&#039;s lectures for free, by people such as James Stewart, is again, a more Christian endeavor. One cannot place a dollar value on spiritual teachings of any kind- the paper, the printing etc. yes, but not the spiritual content. 
The downside is that electrotechnology will more and more, make people sick. The eyes are strained, the electromagnetic radiation becomes toxic, and the very nature of the computer machine is far removed from the human organic system, that the individual in close proximity will be affected adversely. Far better to spend more time in the garden- at least put some flowers next to your computer. 
If Typhon had put Osiris through a blender, Sergei would have had a much better analogy. 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Seth,<br />
The internet is redeemed when it is used as an instrument for doing Christ&#039;s work. It is the &quot;loaves and fishes&quot; on a grand scale.<br />
One could make the same arguments against the printed word. &quot;Primitive&quot; peoples were said to describe the printed words as &quot;little devils&quot;. Our Lord avoided all that by &quot;writing in the sand&quot;. And so the printed word has furthered the Lord&#039;s work.<br />
And is a recorded voice more lively than the printed word? I would say so &#8211; it&#039;s more &quot;analog&quot;. And so what about a video of the person speaking- again more filled with humanness.<br />
The charitable provision of Rudolf Steiner&#039;s lectures for free, by people such as James Stewart, is again, a more Christian endeavor. One cannot place a dollar value on spiritual teachings of any kind- the paper, the printing etc. yes, but not the spiritual content.<br />
The downside is that electrotechnology will more and more, make people sick. The eyes are strained, the electromagnetic radiation becomes toxic, and the very nature of the computer machine is far removed from the human organic system, that the individual in close proximity will be affected adversely. Far better to spend more time in the garden- at least put some flowers next to your computer.<br />
If Typhon had put Osiris through a blender, Sergei would have had a much better analogy.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A response to: &#8220;Anthroposophy and Waldorf Education: The Web as Will and Idea&#8221; &#8211; Can Digital Media be Redeemed? by the internet is both ahrimanic and luciferic &#171; zooey</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/726/response-to-can-digital-media-be-redeemed/comment-page-1#comment-588</link>
		<dc:creator>the internet is both ahrimanic and luciferic &#171; zooey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/?p=726#comment-588</guid>
		<description>[...] the internet is both ahrimanic and&#160;luciferic 2010 January 13   tags: ahriman, internet, technology by zooey   I just knew it all along (although perhaps I forgot about the Christ and his Impulses?), but I have had the satisfaction of discovering that my instinct has already been corroborated by other independent sources, this blog! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the internet is both ahrimanic and&nbsp;luciferic 2010 January 13   tags: ahriman, internet, technology by zooey   I just knew it all along (although perhaps I forgot about the Christ and his Impulses?), but I have had the satisfaction of discovering that my instinct has already been corroborated by other independent sources, this blog! [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ahriman and the Internet: Is there a third path? by arapacana</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/732/ahriman-and-the-internet-a-third-path/comment-page-1#comment-587</link>
		<dc:creator>arapacana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 06:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/?p=732#comment-587</guid>
		<description>Svetlana,  
Thanks for your comments and continued engagement.  I like what you have to say here, and you are right that my ending questions are all leading questions.  In fact, in my original version I actually wrote a sentence at the very end to the effect of &quot;...but my position is made clear by the way in which I have loaded these questions&quot;, so I completely recognize what you say.  At the same time, Prokofieff seems to have an equally strong opinion on the matter, and doesn&#039;t openly or obviously entertain (at least in this article) multiple points of view; he clearly favors the idea that the internet is irredeemable and brings in supporting thoughts and arguments to bolster his case, without presenting contrasting points of view in a similar light... which is the whole reason why Eugene Schwartz wrote his essay and why we are having this conversation now.  So I would say that we really don&#039;t know whether the internet or digital forms of storage and communication are irredeemable or not.  And thus my response is: let us not write them off as such without making a concerted effort to use them in ways that further progressive spiritual unfoldment.  It may fail, but my sense is that the effort itself is what is important, not only the result.  The other option seems to be one rooted primarily in fear, and seems to lead to letting the ahrimanic forces have their way with human will and attention.  I&#039;m still not sure what Prokofieff would actively advocate--what does he think our task actually &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; with respect to the internet and related technologies?  I simply don&#039;t know, and thus have to infer based upon his essay.  With this in mind, I stand by my position that human beings can use their will and attention through the internet in ways that are beneficial to each other in a spiritual sense.  
  
As to the point of &lt;em&gt;how&lt;/em&gt; information is stored, this is very interesting.  In my response above I indicate that all information is &quot;information &lt;u&gt;for&lt;/u&gt;&quot;, which is another way of saying that the notion of &quot;exformation&quot; vs. &quot;information&quot; is, while on the one hand pointing so something very important, also potentially misleading, particularly if we take the difference ontologically, rather than epistemologically.  My sense of this is that &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; kind of communication or transfer of information from one complex system to another involves some kind of &quot;translation&quot;.  That is, steps are taken -- the information is not directly passed between systems in an unmediated and direct way, but always operates through various channels appropriate to the system in question.  In the case of human beings we are primarily talking about &lt;em&gt;sensation&lt;/em&gt;, and therefore the activity of the astral body.  Even face-to-face speech between humans is a far cry from &quot;direct&quot; -- so much is involved in the process, and information can often be misconstrued, ahrimanized, taken abstractly, and so forth; we all have this experience.  So what I&#039;m saying is that in &lt;em&gt;any&lt;/em&gt; situation where information is being transferred between systems, a process of reconstitution (it would be more accurate to say re-creation) necessarily takes place.  This process is the manifestation of the activity of the system as a whole, and it is in &lt;em&gt;just this activity&lt;/em&gt; where spiritual development can take us further.  This means working to transform the astral body, i.e. the transformation of the sense life.  Now, I agree with the general thrust of Prokofieff&#039;s stance, in that digital media and the mode of information transfer made possible by the internet &lt;em&gt;does&lt;/em&gt; make a difference in this process, and that it &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; easier for ahrimanic forces to gain a foothold when these mediums are used.  For this reason we should be more careful about how we use these technologies, because the &quot;seductions of Ahriman&quot; are greater in these realms, and it takes a correspondingly more developed human being to do the transformative work necessary to work towards a Michaelic impulse.  But this is just my point; that &lt;em&gt;greater&lt;/em&gt; spiritual work is asked of us &lt;em&gt;precisely&lt;/em&gt; in this realm--not that the whole realm is irredeemable &lt;em&gt;in principle&lt;/em&gt;.  Like Prokofieff indicates from Steiner: we should be wary of &quot;dualizing&quot; -- my sense is that it would be a mistake to consider this in terms of exformation vs. information, as if these two concepts are not actually quite interdependent and interwoven through and through.  But at the same time you point to something profound, in that there &lt;em&gt;is a real link&lt;/em&gt; between form and content.  Some forms are less suitable for penetration by transformed human will than others, some forms do not carry content well.  This is why I recommend working with Goethean observation; it is explicitly a method by which the &lt;em&gt;way&lt;/em&gt; form and content are linked in complex systems becomes perceivable, thinkable, and actionable to human beings.  It provides a development of spiritual capacities that increases our ability to &#039;redeem&#039; what we involve ourselves with perceptively through our own activity.  The transformation of our perception constitutes the basis for this redemption--it is my understanding that this is part and parcel of Michaelic schooling.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Svetlana,<br />
Thanks for your comments and continued engagement.  I like what you have to say here, and you are right that my ending questions are all leading questions.  In fact, in my original version I actually wrote a sentence at the very end to the effect of &quot;&#8230;but my position is made clear by the way in which I have loaded these questions&quot;, so I completely recognize what you say.  At the same time, Prokofieff seems to have an equally strong opinion on the matter, and doesn&#039;t openly or obviously entertain (at least in this article) multiple points of view; he clearly favors the idea that the internet is irredeemable and brings in supporting thoughts and arguments to bolster his case, without presenting contrasting points of view in a similar light&#8230; which is the whole reason why Eugene Schwartz wrote his essay and why we are having this conversation now.  So I would say that we really don&#039;t know whether the internet or digital forms of storage and communication are irredeemable or not.  And thus my response is: let us not write them off as such without making a concerted effort to use them in ways that further progressive spiritual unfoldment.  It may fail, but my sense is that the effort itself is what is important, not only the result.  The other option seems to be one rooted primarily in fear, and seems to lead to letting the ahrimanic forces have their way with human will and attention.  I&#039;m still not sure what Prokofieff would actively advocate&#8211;what does he think our task actually <em>is</em> with respect to the internet and related technologies?  I simply don&#039;t know, and thus have to infer based upon his essay.  With this in mind, I stand by my position that human beings can use their will and attention through the internet in ways that are beneficial to each other in a spiritual sense.  </p>
<p>As to the point of <em>how</em> information is stored, this is very interesting.  In my response above I indicate that all information is &quot;information <u>for</u>&quot;, which is another way of saying that the notion of &quot;exformation&quot; vs. &quot;information&quot; is, while on the one hand pointing so something very important, also potentially misleading, particularly if we take the difference ontologically, rather than epistemologically.  My sense of this is that <em>any</em> kind of communication or transfer of information from one complex system to another involves some kind of &quot;translation&quot;.  That is, steps are taken &#8212; the information is not directly passed between systems in an unmediated and direct way, but always operates through various channels appropriate to the system in question.  In the case of human beings we are primarily talking about <em>sensation</em>, and therefore the activity of the astral body.  Even face-to-face speech between humans is a far cry from &quot;direct&quot; &#8212; so much is involved in the process, and information can often be misconstrued, ahrimanized, taken abstractly, and so forth; we all have this experience.  So what I&#039;m saying is that in <em>any</em> situation where information is being transferred between systems, a process of reconstitution (it would be more accurate to say re-creation) necessarily takes place.  This process is the manifestation of the activity of the system as a whole, and it is in <em>just this activity</em> where spiritual development can take us further.  This means working to transform the astral body, i.e. the transformation of the sense life.  Now, I agree with the general thrust of Prokofieff&#039;s stance, in that digital media and the mode of information transfer made possible by the internet <em>does</em> make a difference in this process, and that it <em>is</em> easier for ahrimanic forces to gain a foothold when these mediums are used.  For this reason we should be more careful about how we use these technologies, because the &quot;seductions of Ahriman&quot; are greater in these realms, and it takes a correspondingly more developed human being to do the transformative work necessary to work towards a Michaelic impulse.  But this is just my point; that <em>greater</em> spiritual work is asked of us <em>precisely</em> in this realm&#8211;not that the whole realm is irredeemable <em>in principle</em>.  Like Prokofieff indicates from Steiner: we should be wary of &quot;dualizing&quot; &#8212; my sense is that it would be a mistake to consider this in terms of exformation vs. information, as if these two concepts are not actually quite interdependent and interwoven through and through.  But at the same time you point to something profound, in that there <em>is a real link</em> between form and content.  Some forms are less suitable for penetration by transformed human will than others, some forms do not carry content well.  This is why I recommend working with Goethean observation; it is explicitly a method by which the <em>way</em> form and content are linked in complex systems becomes perceivable, thinkable, and actionable to human beings.  It provides a development of spiritual capacities that increases our ability to &#039;redeem&#039; what we involve ourselves with perceptively through our own activity.  The transformation of our perception constitutes the basis for this redemption&#8211;it is my understanding that this is part and parcel of Michaelic schooling.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ahriman and the Internet: Is there a third path? by Svetlana</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/732/ahriman-and-the-internet-a-third-path/comment-page-1#comment-586</link>
		<dc:creator>Svetlana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 05:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/?p=732#comment-586</guid>
		<description>Seth, 
You are very articulate. 
Some things to consider. 
It seems to me that you and Prokofieff are using different modes of language. Prokofieff&#039;s essay is very much like a work of art. He creates clear images. In a true work of art the how and the what are interdependent. Pulling a work of art to bits just creates abstract merry-go-rounds.  
Placing information into a DVD format is a process that changes the information into exformation, a kind of 
seperation of the form from the content so the whole context of the information is changed. Now this has a lot of implications if we a thinking of and experiencing beings instead of notions. 
Most if not all your questions in the last paragraph are not open questions, they all contain an &#039;a priori&#039; so can only lead to a particular understanding without really connecting to the universal understanding and the beings behind those archtypes. 
 
Basiclly you can&#039;t use a methodology of absraction (death forces) if you want to find something living 
virtual reality equals compression equals death. 
Svetlana 
 
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seth,<br />
You are very articulate.<br />
Some things to consider.<br />
It seems to me that you and Prokofieff are using different modes of language. Prokofieff&#039;s essay is very much like a work of art. He creates clear images. In a true work of art the how and the what are interdependent. Pulling a work of art to bits just creates abstract merry-go-rounds.<br />
Placing information into a DVD format is a process that changes the information into exformation, a kind of<br />
seperation of the form from the content so the whole context of the information is changed. Now this has a lot of implications if we a thinking of and experiencing beings instead of notions.<br />
Most if not all your questions in the last paragraph are not open questions, they all contain an &#039;a priori&#039; so can only lead to a particular understanding without really connecting to the universal understanding and the beings behind those archtypes. </p>
<p>Basiclly you can&#039;t use a methodology of absraction (death forces) if you want to find something living<br />
virtual reality equals compression equals death.<br />
Svetlana</p>
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		<title>Comment on A response to: &#8220;Anthroposophy and Waldorf Education: The Web as Will and Idea&#8221; &#8211; Can Digital Media be Redeemed? by Ahriman and the Internet: Is there a third path? &#124; It's Elemental</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/726/response-to-can-digital-media-be-redeemed/comment-page-1#comment-585</link>
		<dc:creator>Ahriman and the Internet: Is there a third path? &#124; It's Elemental</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 00:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/?p=726#comment-585</guid>
		<description>[...] The following post is prompted by discussion of a recent response I made concerning two essays: the first by Sergei Prokofieff, entitled &quot;The Being of the Internet&quot;, in which he argued that the digital media are carriers of such darkness that they are unredeemable, and the second, a reply to Prokofieff, in an article by Eugene Schwartz entitled &quot;Anthroposophy and Waldorf Education: The Web as Will and Idea&quot;,&#160; The reader will likely get more out of the following if both the original essays are read, as well as my original post. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The following post is prompted by discussion of a recent response I made concerning two essays: the first by Sergei Prokofieff, entitled &quot;The Being of the Internet&quot;, in which he argued that the digital media are carriers of such darkness that they are unredeemable, and the second, a reply to Prokofieff, in an article by Eugene Schwartz entitled &quot;Anthroposophy and Waldorf Education: The Web as Will and Idea&quot;,&nbsp; The reader will likely get more out of the following if both the original essays are read, as well as my original post. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on A response to: &#8220;Anthroposophy and Waldorf Education: The Web as Will and Idea&#8221; &#8211; Can Digital Media be Redeemed? by Svetlana</title>
		<link>http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/726/response-to-can-digital-media-be-redeemed/comment-page-1#comment-584</link>
		<dc:creator>Svetlana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 09:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.spiritalchemy.com/blog/?p=726#comment-584</guid>
		<description>Arapacana, 
 
Did you write the above commentry  &#039;A response to....&quot; ? Are you Seth? 
 
If so, my concern is that Prokofieff gave his question very carefully, supported by a specific methodology, in a particular context, and your response is completely out of this context. You mention esoteric information in your above commentry but there is no such thing as esoteric information, but there is esoteric knowledge learned in the context of living in a human community unmediated by machines.  
 
Virtual reality is a contructed machine reality, not a created (organic) actuality that incorporates the whole universe (there is a very subtle difference) and in my opinion to imbue a machineic reality with love is a missunderstanding and misuse of the creative quality of the Christ-impuls. Humanities future is in co-creating the Christ/love stream and in this action we redeem others. The question of redemtion is a very deep mystery that can only be approached in a specific mood of soul. Steiner&#039;s lecture on the Knights Templar might be helpful to this question. 
 
I appreciate your efforts, I only hope my feedback is helpful to you. If not just let it go, keep working 
and good luck. 
Svetlana </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arapacana, </p>
<p>Did you write the above commentry  &#039;A response to&#8230;.&quot; ? Are you Seth? </p>
<p>If so, my concern is that Prokofieff gave his question very carefully, supported by a specific methodology, in a particular context, and your response is completely out of this context. You mention esoteric information in your above commentry but there is no such thing as esoteric information, but there is esoteric knowledge learned in the context of living in a human community unmediated by machines.  </p>
<p>Virtual reality is a contructed machine reality, not a created (organic) actuality that incorporates the whole universe (there is a very subtle difference) and in my opinion to imbue a machineic reality with love is a missunderstanding and misuse of the creative quality of the Christ-impuls. Humanities future is in co-creating the Christ/love stream and in this action we redeem others. The question of redemtion is a very deep mystery that can only be approached in a specific mood of soul. Steiner&#039;s lecture on the Knights Templar might be helpful to this question. </p>
<p>I appreciate your efforts, I only hope my feedback is helpful to you. If not just let it go, keep working<br />
and good luck.<br />
Svetlana</p>
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